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The Grey NATO – 396 – On Paper/On Wrist: The New 42mm Panerai Luminor PAM01710

Published on Thu, 22 Oct 2026 06:00:00 -0400

Synopsis

In episode 396 of The Grey NATO (TGN), hosts James Stacey and Jason Heaton reconnect after New York Watch Week, where James spent several days attending various watch events including Windup, Hodinkee panels, and the FHH discussions. Jason made a quick 24-hour trip to participate in a titanium-themed panel with Marathon, Blake Buettner, and Harrison. The hosts discuss the massive crowds at Windup NYC, with wait times exceeding three hours on Saturday, and share highlights from their time in the city, including a visit to Dram Central, a whiskey bar with over 4,000 bottles.

The main topic focuses on James's hands-on experience with the new Panerai Luminor PAM 1710, a 42mm steel model priced at $6,700. This represents Panerai's return to more accessible sizing and pricing, reminiscent of the brand's appeal in the mid-2000s. James enthusiastically discusses how the watch finally fits his wrist properly compared to the traditional 44mm models, though he notes it lacks the coveted sandwich dial construction. The hosts explore what this release might signal for Panerai's future direction, with James expressing hope for titanium variants and other complications at the 42mm size. The episode concludes with final notes including vintage watch-themed playing cards from Analog/Shift and Nomadic's Tiny Towels.

Show Notes

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Hello and welcome to another episode of the Great NATO. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 396, and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you'd like to support the show, please visit the Grey NATO.com for more details. My name is James Stacey, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, Jason Heaton. Jason, it's uh a few days since I saw you, but it feels like it's been longer. how was your uh your weekend uh after well partial weekend since uh New York Watch Week?
Jason Heaton Yeah, it was good. Um it was a it was a a a fun, very quick trip to New York, but it was good to see you and a and several of our friends and listeners and um yeah, just a a really good time. I it it felt like I was there longer than twenty four hours and not in a bad way. It just uh we managed to do a few fun things, so that was great.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. I think we can probably get into the chit chat about the the New York hangout and and the other things that we got up to for in in those twenty four hours. I was down for a little bit longer than that. I w I was down Tuesday through Saturday.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Uh for sort of a variety of things.
James Stacey Uh but yeah, this is one of those weird scenarios where we don't necessarily have any uh any like housekeeping. There's no upcoming event on the horizon currently. Uh we're just kind of hanging out, trying to figure out what we might do for episode four hundred.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And that sort of thing. But uh it does feel like um you know, after I guess the the big show season, I've at least for me kind of winding down. I mean, I I actually managed to do three of the what would it be? Three are there they have four uh four wind ups. I the only one I've missed is was Dallas, I think, 'cause I I did a little bit of San Francisco, Chicago, and New York and um that's kind of unusual and then Toronto of course and you did Vancouver and many other shows, but uh it kind of feels like this time of year now we're over the hump and and moving into that kind of w change into the holiday kind of mode. I
James Stacey can tell you it did not feel like Hollow. I actually saw a few places putting up Christmas lights
Jason Heaton in New York. No. Oh. And
James Stacey it was hot. I had
Jason Heaton packed I had packed a suitcase full of,
James Stacey you know, like of my little carry-on or whatever, full of stuff for for fall october weather in in and then most of the days were pretty warm and then you'd go into a venue. It wasn't this it wasn't so bad at uh at wind up, but some of the other venues I went to, other things that I did around the city were just boiling.
Jason Heaton Oh sure. Yeah. Like whether
James Stacey whether the buildings had their timing assuming it would also be cold or or whatever, but yeah, just it wasn't uh wasn't quite the weather. I I had been expecting, but it was a great, you know, really fun, rather you know at times exhausting sort of week in uh in the city. But yeah, right after Canadian Thanksgiving, I jetted down uh to the uh to the offices on Tuesday we. had a great Hodinkee happy hour on Wednesday, and then Thursday was all sorts of meetings. I did some panels with the FH or I did a panel uh and and the Hodinkee team did several panels with the FHH on Thursday night, and then you came in Friday and I was spending sort of the day at Wind Up to shoot a video with Tim Jeffries that'll go up for Hodinkee. And then you and I hung out that evening uh, you, know at, the show and and did a lap and saw a few folks. Then we had the uh the marathon sort of titanium panel with Harrison and Blake. And uh and then we went out for dinner. So th there's a lot to dig into. Um and and I would say uh o of the people who use their hours the strong like to the most effect, I would say you did a pretty good
Jason Heaton job. Yeah, I mean I I was kind of bummed that I didn't even get a chance to walk the show. I my scheduled my flights such that I I only arrived barely within an hour, hour and a half of of going on to the the little stage there for our our panel. And then by that time that was over the the wind-up was closed down for the day and and we went out and had a nice evening, but then I I had to fly out the next morning, so I didn't get a chance to to walk the show and say hello to a lot of the people I would have liked to have seen. But I I did see them a few times over uh over this past year, so that's okay. But uh yeah, it was uh it was a bit of a whirlwind, but um we we managed to make the most of it.
James Stacey Yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, I guess the the like you said, you landed kind of just before uh the marathon panel that we did. So uh this was a fun little bit of partnership between uh us and Marathon and then uh Blake Bettner, who's with now collective forology and of course the deep track. Uh we got on stage and kind of rambled on for forty-five minutes or so with some QA about um about our our love of titanium and sort of our appreciation for it and how our scope has sort of changed on on that over the last little while. We've had a few questions to see if it was recorded. Uh we have something in that vein for you, just just sit tight. Uh we're excited about it. Um but I would say just be patient on that front as we're you know working our way through all of the content that kind of came out of uh last week uh that uh that marathon panel includes
Jason Heaton You know, I was uh uh in the Uber on the way to the the venue, um coming up uh I guess it was uh thirty-seventh street there in Manhattan, and uh suddenly the uh I sitting in the back of the the Uber and I looked out and I saw this line of people stretching all the way down thirty seventh and around the corner.
James Stacey Yeah. I didn't register and then
Jason Heaton the even the driver said, Oh, it must be a concert or something. I I was like, wait a minute, this is this is for wind up. I I just couldn't believe the line of people and you know of course in my head I'm thinking they're all here to see us. No. No. No they were not. Yeah, but that was incredible. I heard it was like a two hour wait for
James Stacey I mean on social I'm seeing people saying over three on Saturday.
Jason Heaton Oh my god. Um I I just like
James Stacey the place was absolutely packed. I don't know how to describe it any other way. Like we made the mistake of thinking we could record a sort of lighthearted video of Tim and I having a challenge of each having a certain amount of money to spend.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And as it turns out, that ended
James Stacey up being a massive task for us like to be able to get up to a booth to film a little like buying something or whatever, but also just for the for the production team to deal with the noise and and half the time you'd be shooting and it was so busy that it wasn't like socially obvious that I was talking to a camera necessarily. It might have looked like I was talking to David or Erica, like one of our video producers, our video people.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And someone would just walk up
James Stacey and and want to show me their brand or say that they liked the show or or take a a s photo or something like that. And you go like I I'm literally in the middle of Yeah. It was just it was that busy. It was that busy which was amazing. It was great to see. But I did honestly feel for and I saw a qu quite a bit of sort of not backlash but, like negative vibes on social of people saying how long they waited to get
Jason Heaton in. Yeah. And that's the thing,
James Stacey you know, this year they charged tickets to get into um Toronto Time Peace Show, and it didn't seem to hurt the crowds on the Saturday that we were there, right? There was plenty of people still there. Maybe it was a little bit less packed, uh, shoulder to shoulder than it was previously. But yeah, I don't I don't really know how you would solve for that. There's a finite amount of space to do an event in in in Manhattan. So I do kind of feel for uh for the folks from Wind Up, but that I couldn't believe it. the line was incredible on Friday. And then I went back Saturday to try and do like a couple effective laps of the show, and I brought a couple of the team members from Hodinkee with me. You know, there was like a side entrance where which was kind of like the elbow of the show where if you had a, you know, if you were a participant in the in the structure of the show, like we were with the marathon panel, we had like a wristband, you could go in the other entrance.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Jason, keep
James Stacey in mind that's on the third side of the building from where the line would go. The line was passed
Jason Heaton Oh wow. Oh my god. So we're talking
James Stacey the entirety of the it was almost back to where it started.
Jason Heaton Like four sides of the city block. Correct. Oh that would be dispiriting if I arrived and and saw the line that long. I'm not sure I'd have the stomach for what you
James Stacey know. For sure, as much as I love wind up, like let's be clear, I don't wait in lines for almost any I'll wait in lines for things for my kids. That's the limit.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I really won't wait in line for
James Stacey something for myself. Yeah. I think the Chicago show is more our speed.
Jason Heaton we waited we waited in the line in the sun in
James Stacey Chicago and it was what a hundred people, maybe four, fifty, sixty people, something like that. You know, just in that parking lot for where it was. It didn't even make it to the street in Chicago. So yeah, I kudos to the to the um the wind-up team. What a what a logistical challenge it would have been to organize and kind of keep that line moving. Tons of the brands that I spoke to said it this is the show for them. Um it's it can be make and break, they can launch new models here, they get tons of traffic and that sort of thing. So I had a blast. It was huge. You know, obviously it's a tough weekend to see friends, like you said. You were there for 24 hours. I was there for several days, and it was still hard to really have time to connect with with folks. Um, but it was really fun to see, obviously, you know, the usals. Ken Lamb was there, Tom Place. Um I saw Neil from Citizen very briefly, and then I went back once or twice and you couldn't, you know, they're they just had they had a whole corner of the show, the citizen and boulevard and Frederick Constant. It was just slammed, just busy. Uh, lots of attention, which is great. Uh, you know, we got to see Nick from Strap Habit. Shout out Nick. Um, went to a little analog shift event and he was there. So we had like a a real five minutes to chat, um, which is very exciting. Got to see Brock launch the the new Jacques Bianchi carbon fiber uh you know, EDC collab, a deep sea EDC collab that he that he's done that looked incredible. Um yeah, it was just like a very busy sort of week. Um, and I came home and I don't think I quite appreciated how tired I was until I realized like Sunday I you know got back Saturday evening, and then Sunday evening I had several colleagues from Hoodinky coming over for dinner because we were shooting some talking watches here in Toronto. And uh and when I realized I got up Sunday morning I'm like, man, I gotta like clean my office, I gotta clean my gotta clean the house. I gotta make dinner. Uh
Jason Heaton I got you know, I gotta get some chicken thighs on
James Stacey the smoker. It all worked out fine, of course, but I just didn't realize maybe how low the social battery was and also just how tired I had I had become.
Jason Heaton Yeah. From going and going.
James Stacey So yeah, it was it was great. I you know that was probably the most involved in New York Watch week I've been yet. And I think next year I'll try and stretch it out, like go down for longer. Um and but try and slow the pace on a day-to-day level. Um but it it was an absolute delight. and I guess kind of the highlight I I had this great panel with um at the FHH all about whether or not the the US's position at the top of the watch market in terms of exports from Switzerland. Um, it was sustainable. Um, so had had a really good time. Uh that was led by Stephen Pulverant, former colleague of mine, a good buddy. And then it was Fred Savage got added, so I got to chat with Fred and hang out with him a little bit. And then it was also with Paige Redinger from uh Rob Report. I'm a huge fan of Paige. I think she does a great job. And then finally it was uh Terry Prissert, who works with House of Brands and and you know has been with Brightling for a very long time. I I knew he was on, so I I wore the the aerospace. Uh so we had a really nice chat. Um and then after that went right over to the analog shift thing, did that, went to bed, woke up and then it was it was the Friday. So I had to get to the show kind of in time for uh to to work on that video and then suddenly you're you're around and we we connected we had some uh some street meet uh with
Jason Heaton doc parsons with doc parsons. another
James Stacey Doc parsons appearance, yeah. yeah. And then we got to the to the marathon panel and I I thought it went really well. You know, the space was incredibly loud and it was kind of a weird orientation where we were. Um but you know, I I would say there's maybe forty, fifty people uh kind of hanging out trying to trying to hear us. Apparently they could hear us quite well. I just couldn't hear us or them. Um uh blame my less than ideal uh sort of um hearing these days. Uh but I thought that went really well. And like I said, you know, sit tight on on follow-ups for that uh that experience. We'll try and do what we can with it. Um and then the next one, uh, we went out for some dinner and uh and then I took you to one of what what's become one of my favorite places in uh in New York is especially for if you want to relax for a little while.
Jason Heaton Yeah, you know, th that that's the thing that always kind of not catches me off guard, but I'm always pleased and and always remember what what's so great about New York is that you you go to any area of the city, you know, Manhattan, Brooklyn, wherever, and it's there's always just something I remember coming out of that marathon panel being quite hungry and thinking like, Well, let's do uh what let's do Thai food and you were like, Oh, looks like there's a good place like two blocks from here. And it was. It was great. and we got in fairly quickly and had a a really good big meal. Um and then yeah, Dram Central was just another two blocks from there. So we we were able to just hardly even do any walking and and get to these these great places. That was uh that was really fun. The Dram Central was uh was a highlight. It was just such a memorable place. It was so cool. And I noticed that uh that uh some other friends were there uh the following night. It looked like Ken and Tom Place went there and and some other people so
James Stacey oh man, I missed that on uh on social. I was I was probably as asleep in a scenario where I should have been awake. Yeah, Dram Central's a cool spot. So sh shout out to my buddy Sean Evans. Uh we've been uh friends for a long time. We used to be on the car circuit together and uh he introduced me to the spot. He's a part owner there uh a little while ago. And he unfortunately he was away uh as as is his uh his his purview, he was in uh Italy driving a new Lamborghini. But uh figured we would swing by and I uh the place is incredible. I think that what was the the the menu they handed you? It's well over four thousand bottles, about half of that is whiskey. So if there's if there's ever like, oh, I always wanted to try this or that, um, there's the two there's two really cool things. It's the stock that they have and the people who work there. Uh so the people who work there are encyclopedic on most whiskey and and probably well beyond my experiences with whiskeys. And um and so you you're able to, you know, I think that it's a 300 page menu or something like that, a big binder of everything that they have available. And I I don't, you know, after my first experience there, if you don't have a pro like Sean who also works and writes in the whiskey world, um, you kind of just talk to the guys and they come up with something. Um so I had a couple of incredible uh I had an incredible bourbon and then an incredible rye, a Willet uh Reserve 7. That I I just I'm just blown away by how you you had a taste of that one.
Jason Heaton I'm not even a bourbon person, but that was uh I kind of regretted my my second choice. I went with an Irish whiskey for my second pour. It was that Green Spot. Um which was nice. It was fine. But um
James Stacey it was a special version of Green Spot because you had said that you usually find the Irish stuff too sweet.
Jason Heaton Yeah, this wasn't. I don't remember what the I don't remember what the
James Stacey added element was. But then the the tour bag was quite a cool thing too, because 'Cause
Jason Heaton yeah. I mean, just recently, because of
James Stacey the last Slack crew and a we talked a bunch about um uh Isle of Sky and Taliscar and this is the other the other distillery. Dister on Sky.
Jason Heaton Yeah, right. Um yeah, and the the the the the two um gentlemen that that waited on us and kind of educated us, uh were were great, you know, very patient with us and
James Stacey helped to s make some s some good selections
Jason Heaton and uh it was a good chat. I mean my my only quibble about that that whole evening was the music at uh Dram Central. Yeah, the music
James Stacey was nuts. I don't know who was running that playlist. It was
Jason Heaton bad. It was bad. Samario
James Stacey Speedwagon. Yeah. little uh
Jason Heaton Paula Abdul and and it was a little too loud too. But the the the venue's great. I mean I I'd love to go in there when they were just playing some like you said, Bon Ivor or Miles Davis or something.
James Stacey Put on some jazz. I can at least like it wouldn't I wouldn't notice it.
Jason Heaton Yeah, right. Necessarily. Yeah. Yeah.
James Stacey But yeah, I I really like that spot. And if you're in the city and you would like to I mean if you if you're just out for cocktails, probably not the spot, right? But if you want to try whiskey or or some other spirit uh that's that could be special or you want to flip through a book and really pick something that you're not going to find elsewhere, the other thing I really like about it is you can kind of tell them what you want to spend.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So like this wasn't this wasn't a hundred dollars
James Stacey an ounce or two hundred dollars an ounce. So for my first one, I had like an Evan Williams single barrel from twenty eleven, and I think I told them I had like, you know, thirty, forty bucks. Which don't get me wrong, that's a lot to spend on on a pour of of whiskey, unless you're really going to enjoy it. This is the exact experience Jason and I were kind of hunting for. And it's not that difficult to spend 25 or 30 bucks on a drink outside of beer in midtown. So you have to keep that within scope. It's not quite the same as ordering a you know a shot, a bullet or whatever. But uh I got that and and then the next one I had was, you know, uh a very similar price. the Willet was in the 30s. I I just I was impressed by the experience and you know this is my second time there and I I really like it. It's a cool spot.
Jason Heaton Good way to end the evening. Kind of uh we weren't sure how that how that day would shape up. But I was in bed by ten thirty. Yeah, right. Yeah,
James Stacey ten thirty, eleven by the time I got back down back down to Soho. So not not so bad. and then the my only other shout out from the show, and I guess this in some ways could have been a uh a final notes, but I'm sure we've had Nick's uh products in final notes in the past was I I picked up a really cool ad from Ad Patina.
Jason Heaton Hmm. Oh nice. And I
James Stacey here I can send it to you, Jason, before I before I say what it is and get your get your reaction here. I'll uh text it to you.
Jason Heaton Oh, that's great. I love that. I've never seen that one before. It's really good.
James Stacey So it's uh it's a big white page at the top it says dress down with a period and then it's just uh an original Aqualand laying on its side with like with the um with a little tag that says prof for professional use only. I I just it looks incredible on the wall. I've got it next to your Doxa poster from way back in the day. And under under uh uh a very cool like miniaturized version of the poster for Where Eagles Dare.
Jason Heaton Oh, sure. Yeah. So it's uh it
James Stacey looks great on the wall. But yeah, that's a a big shout out to Nick at Ad Patina. Um I did it's I didn't get a I didn't get this for free or whatever. I paid Nick for it. It was uh 65 bucks, I think. And I absolutely love it. I got it home and got it in a frame. So that's a good one. But yeah, what's uh what what's your life been since you got home? We've got kind of a fun kind of main topic to get into because I returned to a watch I've been quite excited about, uh a new watch. Um but we can get to that in a moment. how was your return back to uh normalcy of uh Minneapolis?
Jason Heaton Yeah, good. And we've had such great weather here. You know, it was it was warm on Friday and you said all week uh in New York and and it's been very very fall like here, but on the warm side, um but but not oppressively so and so it's been great. It was nice to get back. I got back around one PM on Saturday and still had plenty of the day left and then Sunday just kinda getting caught up and went for a good long run and walked Ruby and did a little, you know, housework around here and whatever and uh yeah it's been it's been fine and um I'm going on a little short road trip uh over to Wisconsin to visit my folks over the next couple of days uh which will be fine. I haven't seen them in a while since they moved. and uh and then actually um I'll be, you know, we're we're kind of in the thick of of campaign and election season coming up here, the midterm elections, which is uh all in the news if if you haven't had your head in the sand for too long. Um And this year I decided um I wanted to be a little proactive and I decided to sign up to be an election judge. I don't know if there's that concept in Canada or elsewhere in the world, but these are just kind of citizens that can sign up um to kind of oversee the voting process and you're sort of taking people's registrations and you know shepherding them shepherding them through the the process of voting and so I've got some training this afternoon for three hours to kind of learn the the ropes and and how to do that. And it's uh I don't know, I'm kind of excited to do it. It's uh it feels like I'm kind of participating in the process, which is uh which is kind of cool.
James Stacey Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of very important sort of voting also going on here in here in Canada as we you know deal with um with the separatist movement in Alberta. So I think that's uh that's quite admirable that you're part of it. Um and uh I hopefully you're able to feel like you've you've had an impact and can help some people, you know, make a nice informed vote uh when they when it comes to making that decision. That's great.
Jason Heaton Definitely. And uh how about you? Is your week uh slowing down a little bit after you I mean you had to hit the ground running right when you got home with uh with the talking watches stuff and entertaining a little bit. Um things No slowdown
James Stacey for me. But yeah, at this point, you know, it it feels like a Friday, but it's only Tuesday.
Jason Heaton So just got to keep my head down and kind
James Stacey of plow through it. I've got uh got lots to continue to work on this week. But um that said, lots of exciting sort of watch stuff. You want to jump into some risk check before we get to the main topic?
Jason Heaton Yeah, sure thing. Um you mentioned Yeah we we bumped into to Ken Lamb uh in New York. Um, you know, I've seen him a lot this year, which is great. love to hang out with Ken, even for short periods of time. And uh when I saw him in Toronto, we got to talking about doing a bit of a strap swap, and I had uh uh he was looking to get some kind of a bun strap or or two to kind of try out on some watches of his. And so I brought him two bun straps and he gave me a strap that I'd had trouble getting here from um CNS or formerly cheapest NATO straps uh over in Sweden. Um that is the Marlin Bando. So this is that kind of uh synthetic uh rubber adjacent strap uh inspired by the one that Marlon Brando had on his uh GMT master that he wore in Apocalypse Now. Um and uh and they've done this reproduction of that strap and um I was Ken and I got to talking about it and he said, Oh I I I'll bring you one. So he he did and I put it on my uh my Rolex uh submariner and that's what I have on, my 14060, and it looks it looks great. It was a bit of a tight fit, you know, the those um five digit subs. Um you know, the there isn't quite as much strap clearance uh on the case as there was in the four digit uh rolexes, but it I still managed to make it work and it it looks great. I I was tempted, you know, Ken said you gotta pop the bezel off and go full marlin, but uh haven't done that yet. So
James Stacey I love that. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, very good. Yeah,
Jason Heaton that's great. And n nice to see nice to know that you've got the
James Stacey sub on wrist. It's a goodie. Yeah. I I
Jason Heaton you know, coming back from our our titanium talk, you'd think I'd just be all jazzed up about wearing all my titanium watches, but uh I I put on a steel watch right when I got home, and that's that's where it sits.
James Stacey Yeah, I'm I'm wearing uh titanium one, but a bit of a weirder or less common choice for me, a full digital watch, not my normal purview. Um, but I've kind of fallen in love uh certainly with the latest spec of the RZE UTD. So I had an RZE uh the 8000 series, the previous, uh, so I have it in full ultra hex with the bracelet. It's all bead blasted. It's it it became sort of like my summer just knocking around sort of watch, especially in the evenings. It's got great loom. It's very light. You cannot seemingly hurt it in any way. Um I really do enjoy the watch. And then just recently, RZE, and I think it's just on pre-order, and there'll be more things happening in the future. Pay attention to their site for the specifics, but they've now launched or will be soon launching the eighty eighty module. So it's the first digital module they've developed themselves. So it's more legible. it's definitely clear the viewing angle's better than the than the 8000 series by a little bit. The loom is very similar, but you they now have a dual time, multi-alarm, and a timer all built into the same workflow. It's exceptionally easy to use. And I was actually able to follow very simple directions to take the watch apart, remove the module, and put the new one in, and put it all back together. And I'm just thrilled with it. I mean if I'm going to wear something in the fully digital watch space, something in the G Shock or or otherwise, typically I lean towards, you know, the the Timex Iron Man and and I've swapped modules there. It's a very similar experience. But this is absolutely, you know, a step up in fully titanium, uh, a nice big display, very easy to read. The loom is great, you know, your push button loom uh for the backlight. And yeah, I I've been wearing it a ton. Um it sometimes it's just like my I can't decide watch.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Um and if I'm going out and
James Stacey it it doesn't matter if I take this to the park and then I s smack the bezel against the you know, the playground or or something at the play gym for for my son, so I've been wearing it a ton and I like it. I believe they're pre-ordering like a white Saracoat version, which Huey had on his wrist. I'm not normally a white watch guy, uh but the white is very eggshelly and I I thought it looked really good with the digital kind of you know the stormtrooper vibe. Um and then I believe Huey can correct me if I get it wrong. Um, but I believe they'll also be selling like module upgrade kits.
Jason Heaton So if you already have the uh
James Stacey a UTD that you love, you could swap in uh the new module and and I think it was quite a reasonable price. So I would say stay tuned to their site for that. Um but I'll link the one that they're currently pre-ordering which will deliver in in twenty twenty six.
Jason Heaton Huh wow. Very cool. Yeah, that's uh that's a neat direction for a brand to go. I mean, it's uh it's really neat that they're doing like their own kind of version, their own module, their own kind of in house digital. um just so such a a a a zag when everybody else is zigging in a different direction. It's uh it's really neat.
James Stacey You know, it's exciting because it opens up this world of things I would like like the idea of making my own sort of co-pilot uh mod in strap module with the digital display and that sort of thing. and this feels like it's more approachable than just a dream. Uh seeing as they were able to obviously they wanted to make the way that RZE is designed is that nothing is disposable. You know, the the watches are designed to last forever and they have all these sorts of programs to trade in watches uh so they do last forever and that sort of thing. So I I they wanted to obviously operate with a module that could be swapped into the existing world of their watches, uh which I think is cool. But in my mind, there's still just a a whole world where this opens up like me thinking, oh, maybe you could make something that could sit in a strap between two links of a bracelet or something kind of like the you know the Brightling um UTC modules, co-pilot modules from the past. That could be so cool. Yeah. These are this would be too big in its current example, but also probably have more features than you would need.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it'd be a neat little kind of uh side project for for maybe Huey or for you to work on with him and and I mean I could see bright bright older Brightling owners uh kind of being being keen to uh to get pick up kind of an aftermarket version. I think it'd be neat or any other watch for that matter. I think that'd be really fun. For sure. Yeah.
James Stacey It was a goodie. But we're
Jason Heaton gonna move on to our main topic, which is an entirely different sort of watch. Yeah,
James Stacey let me switch watches. Give me there's no sound effects for this. I'm not sure what the sound effect would be, but I will switch to the watch that we're talking about today. It's the return of one of our favorite segments on paper on wrist. Gotta give a shout out to Seen Unseen, a podcast that I listened to for many years about um uh the movie world where one person on the podcast saw the movie and the other person consumed all of the non-movie elements, you know, like the posters and the trailers and all that kind of stuff, read reviews, and then they would talk about it, both from one person having one perspective and one doing the other. We do the same thing, but it's about a watch. It's called on paper, on wrist. And today we're talking about a watch that I got quite excited about from the moment I saw the press release and I was immediately curious. So I asked to borrow one and it it arrived while I was in New York, and that is the Panorai Luminor Pam 1710, aka the standard black dial 42mm steel luminar. In terms of the Luminar range, this is the second from the bottom model. The range itself uh starts at $5,900 now for a base logo uh at 10 1086 and that would cost you $5,900 US dollars. The new 42 millimeter models start at $6,700. That includes this black dial model in steel. There's also a green dial model in steel, which I think looks incredible. And then there's a blue model, a blue dial with a black DLC that's a little bit more money. These are specifically meant as a nod to the brand's first civilian watch, which if you don't know, they only started selling watches to the likes of most of us in 1993. So the idea is a simple, straightforward luminar, really not that many frills. And we're seeing a price point that is, you know, for a long time, a lot of the Panorized stuff felt like they were pushing 10 grand all the time, maybe more. And they they certainly still do that, but I'm excited for a watch that feels like it kind of returns to where we were and we can get into the pricing once we've kind of done some of the other other elements. Um, so this is a like I said, it's black dial luminar, sub-seconds at nine. You've got the big crown guard, you've got uh 22 millimeter single-sided screwed lugs, which is great. So one screwdriver, you're never gonna scratch a lug. I mean, unless you're a maniac with the edge of the screwdriver, I guess. But you also don't need it's not like the Bell and Ross where you need two tools. It's one flathead screwdriver from one side. Really easy to do. I've got it on a NATO currently. It delivers on quite a nice sort of textile strap with uh a leather placket and then that like awesome panorite buckle. The buckle makes me happy. I can't explain why. Just years of of loving the the big Panorai looking straps. You know, I got into watches in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, and Panorai was really an object of like extreme fascination for me. The first stories I ever wrote for Watch Report were about Panorai. First story I ever wrote about watches was about the the Radiomere. Um and the idea if you trace my more modern coverage of the brand, it's anything they do that's small, the 42mm submersible. Now we have a 42 millimeter luminar. And I I gotta say, like we'll get into all sorts of details, but I really like it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Like it does, it's kind of one of those watches
James Stacey that does exactly what it says on the tin. There's a couple things I would change. There's ways I would maybe grow the model range, but I d I d I really like it. It's 500 meters water resistant, so it's not, it's not like some fifty meters thing. It's um it's not small.
Jason Heaton It's not a small watch. I I would describe
James Stacey it as um it's not a small watch. It's just a smaller take on quite a big watch, if that makes sense.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah, totally. Uh I think it still wears
James Stacey a lot like a 4D four. Um so for specs it's, 42 millimeters wide, 13.8 at the top of the crystal, and 51.8 millimeters lug to lug. The actual point where the like a NATO or a strap mounts is closer to 50 millimeters across. So there's a little bit of extension on the lugs there, if that matters. Uh, I think it wears a lot like that sounds. It's very square because it's so much dial. Um, but if you're really sensitive to lug to lug, this will feel like a bit of a long watch. And that's because it's still a forty-two millimeter panorai, right? The other main thing here is uh and this is this is what you see especially among panorai nerds, which I deeply respect. It's a cool thing to be a nerd about, I think. Um, but no sandwich dial on these models. So if you're really looking for the that classic dial execution, you don't find it here. This is a more simple dial, probably something that allows the brand to bring that price point under $7,000. Do I think it would be better with a sandwich out? Yeah, sure. It'd be pretty cool. But it might also be a little bit thicker. I'm not sure. I'm not sure it would be worth it for the thickness or possibly an increase in price. And otherwise, it's a P980 executed in no date. So it's a four hertz movement, 72 hours of power reserve, and it's uh used across all three of these new forty-two millimeter models and several models with a date into the uh other other Luminors.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it's great. I'm I I'm for you know the past few years kind of rolling my eyes at a lot of the the Panerai releases um as they kind of had continued to move away from the core that I think I and and sounds like you loved in the earlier days, um, it it it brings me joy to see these uh these come back and. it it's it's a's a tempting offering. I mean it's it's well above my budget these days, but uh it's it's um it's great. You know, I remember when the the duay kind of was introduced, it was kind of the smaller, less expensive version of of the the Luminore. And um but but it had that that disappointing fifty meters of water resistance that everyone was like groaning about, and and myself included. and this just feels great. I mean five hundred is substantially more. I think it was always three hundred for the the luminars, if I'm not mistaken, for for most of the the time that I've known about them. Um you know, short of the submersibles. And of these three, I I'd have a really hard time making a choice. You have the black dial version on your wrist right now?
James Stacey I do. Yep. The 1710. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Um I I'd have a hard time picking between these. I I think the I'm not a huge kind of DLC case person, but that's Yeah, I
James Stacey haven't seen I haven't seen the other two in person. Griffin had the green one. It looks incredible. I know some people who've gotten who bought the green one like the minute they finally saw it in person and are, you know, gonna rock it. The I'm not a black and blue guy together, not for clothes. Oh
Jason Heaton yeah. Huh. So
James Stacey I would want to see how dark the case finishes in person. But I mean if they had done, and I'm sure that maybe we'll see one in the future if this line ends up being successful, but a black, black, I think would be incredible. Like something closer to a marina militaire in terms of its its overall coloring. But I I like that they just kind of went with one unit of Luminore. I I can understand the purists wanting the sandwich dial for sure, but other than that, it just does the panor, I think,
Jason Heaton at a at the most kind of simplified
James Stacey level. Yeah. And I don't want to call it basic because it's still a three-day power reserve. You know, it's a four hertz movement. You get you you're getting the sub-second, like the small seconds display. So it's not like you're really leaving anything out, but it it's kind of like they just went for one one unit of luminar slightly smaller. And compared to a 44, it wears quite a bit smaller. It's still a 42 millimeter. It's a weird thing to say because it's like if you go from a big pickup truck to a normal size pickup truck, that's still a very big vehicle compared to a Honda Civic, but it's smaller than the bigger pickup truck. I mean it's it's almost self-evident. And that's kind of how I would describe this. I think this is the one where it no longer looks comically oversized on my wrist. I have a seven inch wrist, um, which is sort of a nor a normal roughly normal size, or at least in the in the range of what you would call a normal sized wrist. And I think it looks appropriate on this wrist well understanding that it's a panor eye, which means it's you know, I don't know that this design holds up at 38 millimeters. You know what I mean?
Jason Heaton yeah. I think it might look kind of strange. Yeah, it's funny. You sent me this uh just out of the blue yesterday, this uh phone photo that you took, you know, you texted it to me and said, this just came in or something like that. And it was I I had to look twice to see um to to make sure that was your wrist because I I just I'm not sure I it it just w didn't register. It like didn't compute that, you know, James has a has a paner eye lumin luminar on his wrist 'cause I've just never seen that before. I mean I know you've had a submersible uh for a while um to to review, but um I don't know, th it's it's just w we for one thing, we just don't talk about Panorai very much on TGN, I think because of some of the reasons I mentioned earlier. They were just kind of increasing in price and kind of experimenting with different kind of higher end materials and complications and things and and this just feels like like I can exhale finally, you know, and be like, okay, we can talk about panorai because it's uh it's kind of in our wheelhouse now with this one.
James Stacey Yeah, and I think I think it's important to originally like to understand sort of the original context. I I was never a panoristi I in those guys are probably the reason I like Panorai. Is you know, they're the ones that that kind of brought the brand from that '93 start back up into you know into prominence in the collector space, in the enthusiast space. But back in the day, twenty s let's call it two thousand six to two thousand ten, you could pretty commonly find it would be forty-four millimeters of course, but you could find a a base logo or or or similar for it, you know, in the four thousand dollar range. I would imagine. maybe at times a little more, maybe at times a little less. And at the time they used ETA movements, 6497s and things like that. And then the brand went in-house, you know, with a connection to the rest of Rishma and with JLC and the rest of this. And so we started to see the P series movements, which of course we we still see in this. It's a three-digit, but you go back to the P2000s and the P9000s and things like that. And they just they got much more expensive, right? uh purportedly because it was one of these brands that went in-house. And a few years later, like Tudor would go in-house for two hundred fifty dollars more than the ETA. This wasn't that. Yeah. This was a this was a big jump. They were going to much larger power reserves. They were going to more specific movement architecture. They were going to uh GMT movements and local jumping hands and you know, the power reserves and all these sorts of things. So not not exactly a one to one with Tudor, but I was fascinated with these watches back in the day. And then, you know, over time I had a series of watches I would call either homage or tributes just to try and try them out. I didn't I didn't have four thousand dollars for anything other than a car
Jason Heaton back in those days, right? right. or
James Stacey rent payment or something like that. So I I tried them all out and I did learn that like these ones that were forty four, I think I even ventured into a forty seven briefly. Just didn't work for me. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Right. Yeah. The 44 was fine,
James Stacey but huge. You were wearing a very large watch. And then the 42, you know, sort of sizing made more sense as I got deeper and deeper into some of these other brands that offered, you know, similar, if not very homage driven sort of considerations of uh of a Luminar or or Raddy Mirror or what have you. And I mean the thing to the thing to highlight is is sixty seven hundred dollars inexpensive? Absolutely not. And is sixty seven hundred dollars today does that put it into the same mind space as a four thousand or a three thousand dollar watch years ago? Not really. I would I would it's worth considering that four thousand dollars in two thousand six is sixty five hundred bucks today. And then the other thing to consider is we don't really know what the secondary market will be for these.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Right? These are
James Stacey brand new to the market. The arey charging 6,700 bucks for them. If I were buying a panoride today, I would be buying this one that's on my wrist. I really, really like it. Um, I like it more than the I mean the the submersible was eleven thousand dollars or something like that. Uh I like it more than the submersible. It's the right size for my wrist. Um I can understand that the the really hardcore folks don't like that it's smaller. They like the 44 or the 47. They don't like that you don't have the the sandwich dial, but that's it's not something that's really weighing on my mind. I look down on my wrist and I just I get this like little hit of happiness when I see it on my wrist, when I see the way the light catches it, when I see that it's it's this incredible design, you know, the the the Luminour uh executed in in a mostly authentic way to the Lumino. They're just and I I really like it. I think they work in this size.
Jason Heaton Yeah, they're just such fun watches. I I you know that you know I always talk about having something to play with on a watch and lacking a a rotating bezel on these. Um you still get the the locking lever for the the crown and and it's just I don't it's it's a very dynamic watch. it's it's just fun to look at, those big numerals on the dial. Just makes such a statement. And I'm curious, coming off of our discussion about titanium and all the merits of titanium, the first and foremost, the the weight savings. How's it feeling to wear a 42 in steel? I mean, that must f must feel heavy after most of the watches that you're used to wearing.
James Stacey I don't find it to be noticeably heavy. I mean I like I switch watches a lot. I think when I got back, I I went directly back to the vertex for a day or two,
Jason Heaton yeah, which is also quite a heavy watch.
James Stacey Um, what I notice is the weight transfer, especially on the NATO. As I move my wrist around, the watch moves from one sort of position to the other side of my wrist based on its weight because it's not I don't have it like cranked down.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And I think if you had if I had like
James Stacey perfect sizing on the NATO or or on a on a strap, that wouldn't be a thing. And I bet you on on the rubber that would help kind of hold it to the wrist. But even as I'm talking now, you gesture uh gesturing with my hands, I can feel it kind of moving. So there is like a it's like it like driving a heavier car.
Jason Heaton Yeah where as as soon you're in a
James Stacey corner you suddenly feel it transfer its weight around. There's way more weight transfer on this than any any of my type or even I you know I just took the RZE off, which is feather light, even on a bracelet, yeah. Comparatively. And the RZD has micro adjusts so you can really lock it in so it doesn't move around at all. Whereas this, yeah, I would say the the thing I notice is it it has especially I mean it's a big watch on a NATO, it's gonna have a top heavy feel, but it kind of moves around a bit. It's not quite flopping. I have enough, I have it tight enough to not be doing that. Um, but that's what I would notice for sure. And it's definitely um not a thin watch. Uh it's it's you know, I don't think f under fourteen's super thick for a five hundred meter diver, just kind of probably isn't. And whether or not you how how you want to class this as a diver or not is up to you. Five hundred meter water resistant watches aren't usually thin watches. Um, but it has kind of a very flat side before you get to the bezel. Um so it it comes up in sort of a monolithic sort of way. It has this architecture to it. And to be clear, if that's something you don't like, you probably just don't need a luminar in your life.
Jason Heaton Right. I really like it. Um, this is
James Stacey a very much like a t-shirt watch for me. Uh I love and man, I just look down and there's like they have such a unique style, such a specific, stated, well-stated style that I've been following for 20 years.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah.. That's true We have
James Stacey we have an awesome panor eye story in the next magazine uh for Hodinkee. little uh shout out there. I'm sure that hopefully the mag team's okay with me sharing that. We have an incredible uh written by a fantastic writer whose name I I won't blow up. And if this is a hint of where of where they they want to take it, especially after seeing the Bernito finish uh from Watches and Wonders, the forged T.I. from Watches and Wonders. Man, I that would be my last my last sort of note. And if you have any other questions, we can definitely get into them. But I I hope that this is successful enough that that we get to see them do like the really cool stuff in forty-two. A destro? A destroy would be rad. The marina military coloring, the black, black with the tan, the forge TI, a GMT would be really cool. Um, and then that uh Brunito finish would be really cool, I think.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I think if I had a wish list for this one, I mean this is this is pretty darn close to I I'm not gonna say perfect, but it's it's a it's a beautiful watch. Um titanium. Titanium destro sandwich dial. That would be my yeah
James Stacey and I to be clear I don't think it would need to be forged titanium. I'm not going to be the guy to buy a fourteen thousand dollar watch from it probably any brand,
Jason Heaton yeah. Fifteen or seventeen or whatever it ended up being.
James Stacey But if this if it was like a fifteen hundred dollar premium, I'd f I'd probably find a way to close that gap. You know what I
Jason Heaton mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The
James Stacey oh the last thing is since I got it in, I can't stop thinking about taking it diving.
Jason Heaton Oh yeah. Yeah. It'd be fun. I've never
James Stacey really thought about taking one, but I must like there's fo there's a photo on the product page. I'll link the product page of course. But there's a photo on the product page if you scroll down, Jason, to where it mentions the the full water resistance of five hundred meters. Yeah. And it shows it underwater on a wetsuit. And I was like, Yeah, it doesn't have a bezel, but dang if it doesn't look really good.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see that. Isn't that cool? Yeah. Yeah.
James Stacey Like I again, like it it's underwater, it's about as you like it's less useful than almost any other watch I have under it' you you I would know what time it is for the people back on shore on the boat right
Jason Heaton right but it looks cool
James Stacey it looks really cool so yeah good on them I I really hope this is a brand that that starts to embrace pricing closer to five thousand dollars as much as possible. and I I think this is a a nice thing that's both easier to wear and at the entry level price point for the Luminar. So I I I can understand if if it doesn't appeal to the to the choir. I think they're they're making something for the congregation here, or even people who who might not have joined yet. Uh but yeah, I think it's a good one.
Jason Heaton Very cool. Yeah, good to see Panorai kind of shaking off some of their I don't want to call it rust 'cause they've been presumably successful over the past few years and and people seem to like s a lot of their stuff, but uh at least in my eyes, um kind of coming back to form, which I'm really happy about. Glad you got to try that out.
James Stacey Yeah, so that's on paper, on wrist for the Panterai forty-two millimeter luminar. If you have any questions, let us know in the Slack, of course, or you could uh send in a question for our QA's. We're collecting up
Jason Heaton Yeah, sure. And I you know um I have to apologize to you. I I stole kind of our our something we both potentially could have used because we both got a a set of these uh and full disclosure um they were sent to us for free um by our buddy James Lambdon at Analog Shift because he's done a collaboration with a company called Edition de la Tour um for a set of vintage watches playing cards. This is a, as the name suggests, a set of very high quality uh pack of playing cards with uh kind of themed around iconic vintage watches. And it's a very it it has a really nice tactile feel, some texture to it. The printing is great. There's a a really beautiful font that they're using for the uh the cards themselves and uh yeah uh we we both got a set and uh I've already played a couple rounds of of solitaire with them and uh and really quite quite excited about them. And I have to give full full disclosure, I actually this isn't the first set of watch related playing cards I have. Um Haviston watch uh watch straps also produced kind of a cool set of kind of iconic military watch um playing cards a few years ago and I've got a I've got a pack there. So my collection is growing. But uh congratulations to uh to our buddy James and to Analog Shift for uh this this really cool collab. It's uh twenty-nine dollars and it's available on uh analog shift's website.
James Stacey That's great. Yeah, I have a set right here on my desk, which uh they they sent a box down to the Hodinkee office so people would have a chance. Tim Jeffreys is doing some wild magic tricks uh with it and I I love this. It comes with a little note from uh James uh on one of the cards and then you can kind of sit there and go through and figure out which each design is and then if you want to use them for cards as well. I I think the execution's rad. I think the box is nice. Talk about uh I guess we're officially let's call this the official start of like stocking stuffer season.
Jason Heaton Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh and on that note,
James Stacey I I can add one to that, which was uh our our good friend Justin Souter is an incredible uh uh artist uh and and good buddy. Uh we met up uh a couple times over the week. He was in town, but at the uh analog shift event, which was also for the Jacques Spianki we spoke about previously. Uh, he gave me uh two things. One of which I'm still messing around with and I need to learn how to use properly. It's very cool. But the second thing is you can pretty much understand it immediately. It is a uh a product from a company called Nomadics. And Jason, I have yours here. I stole I stole yours. I forgot to give it to you in the brief time we had together, so I have two. But these are called the Tiny Towel. And if you can imagine somebody just took uh it'd be maybe, I don't know, 10 inches by 10 inches, and it's like a pretty fully functioning, super absorbent uh pack like towel, like little colorful towel. You could use it to wipe a watch or a camera lens. Uh you know, if you're in a very hot space as I was this year, you could, you know, dab some dab some sweat from your brow like a a southern gentleman. Um but I I've been really impressed by these. I I uh Justin gave one for me and one for you. Like I said, I stole yours. I'll get it to you and the next next time I send you a box down uh or over uh to uh to where you are. But um I'm I'm really impressed by them. It's a pack of threes, twenty-four dollars. Uh as a guy with uh you know kids that are constantly making some sort of mess, a baby that is just perpetually kind of sticky. Nice to have. And then of course if you if it's more light cameras or wiping off some gear or or or that sort of thing. Uh I this is a good product. This is something again that that I think I will be considering for they they make a bunch of very cool designs and they come in three packs for $24. I have no uh affiliation with this brand. Like I said, uh Justin was kind enough to give me one of these towels, uh, and I really like it. I used it a few times while I was in New York, keep uh keep the camera lens kind of clean and and that sort of thing. It's great.
Jason Heaton Yeah. It I you showed it to me briefly and uh and it does look great. Um I'm I'm a big fan of kind of just you know, this is one of these products where uh since it comes in kind of a three pack of of the ability to just have something you know like this like like with a pocket knife or anything like or a little flashlight or something to have a few around in different locations and uh this makes it really easy for that and it's a great great size too.
James Stacey Absolutely. So a big shout out to Justin uh And thank you so much for the towels. I highly recommend it and I I'm already eyeballing a couple for people I'm I'm starting to plan Christmas gifts for.
Jason Heaton Imagine that. Wow. Well, there we
James Stacey go. That's a a whole episode in under an hour. I hope people enjoyed. If you have any questions, let us know on the TGN Slack as always. And uh thanks so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get yourself into Or even if you'd just like to support the show directly, maybe even grab yourself a new TGN sign NATO, just visit thegreynato.com. Music Throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Leo Tolstoy who said: the two most powerful warriors are patience and time.